[PrintOwners] Canon copiers

Tue Jul 22 12:06:32 EDT 2008

A couple of thoughts....

The KM 6500 has very good quality output if serviced correctly. Mind 
you the C1 may have better, and the 6000 or 7000 may be better as 
well. But let me add some perspective...

The C1 is dog slow. Unproductive in today's digital world. Look at 
the ad for it, a picky designer wanting her colors just right. It is 
not a production machine. Its a proofer. Canon has the demographics 
on that machine nailed.

The 6500 costs less than half of the 7000. For that price you could 
have 2 giving redundancy and a 600,000 impressions/month production capacity.

If you can sell 600,000 impressions/month for an average of $0.30 a 
click that equates to revenue of $180,000/month not bad if you can sell to it.

I'm using this as an extreme example to consider the following.

Run the ROI on the 6500 an then run the ROI on the 7000 it becomes 
abundantly clear where you can make more money.

Not everyone you sell to is an agency demanding the highest, pickiest 
output. Frankly we don't have many agencies these days because I 
don't make nearly the $ on them nor have nearly the amount of 
headaches as I do most the rest of my corporate accounts. Craig is 
the opposite. He's made a good run at the agencies, but he has an 
IGen. Thats a different discussion.

Another thing to consider....if the C500 output was good enough to 
win last years PrintExcellence award, and the 6500 has better output 
than the C500....how much quality do you really need?

Its all about making a profit, and the 6500, if sold to correctly 
will pay for itself much faster than a 7000.

Once again, remember the mantra service, service, service, its all 
about the service.

But if you have good service, the KM 6500 with a CREO-RIP and 
reasonably good sales ability, you make money hand over fist.

I believe Canon has seriously lost their way in their product offering....

S.

At 07:38 AM 7/22/2008, you wrote:
>***** This is a PrintOwners List Message *****
>
>Scott,
>
>At your volume even the C1 would sit idle quite often. With the 5185PRO
>being an unknown at this point why not corner the market with quality. Don't
>forget the C1 runs b&w at 60 ppm all stocks. We just did 350 52 page
>yearbooks 4/4 cover and b&w guts on 80# gloss. The C1 would be perfect for
>this and the output would be photobook quality.
>
>I would make sure the dealer has a good properly trained tech to work on it.
>
>Shawn O'Neal
>Conestoga dpi
>246 N Lincoln Ave
>Lebanon, PA 17046
>
>www.conestogadpi.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: printowners-bounces at printweb.org
>[mailto:printowners-bounces at printweb.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vicnaire
>Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:02 AM
>To: Discussion List for Printing Business Owners Only
>Subject: Re: [PrintOwners] Canon copiers
>
>***** This is a PrintOwners List Message *****
>
>Thanks to everyone for the responses, and I'll try to shed a little more
>perspective on the situation.
>
>Our current usage averages @10-15K per month, and the two most common
>stocks we use are a 70# offset, a 28/32# coated sheet, and an 80# cover.
>We will have occasional forays into heavier stocks such as 10pt/12pt
>Kromekote for business cards. I live and work in a physically large
>state, Maine, with a total population of only @ 1.2 million people, most
>of those being in the southern counties 2+ hours away. Our immediate
>area total population is @40,000, with an effective total market of
>approx. double that before distance becomes a factor.
>
>In that area we really only have two options for larger machines, IKON
>and X-Box, with a third option being the regional Canon dealer I am
>talking to.  We don't have a K/M dealer, IKON sells them with the CCP
>label on them. IKON sold me the 8050 almost three years ago, and if this
>copier were a car Maine State law would require that they buy it back
>from me. Average number of copies between failures is less than 2300
>(no, it's not a typo, 2300!)  I have been a loyal customer for 10 years,
>but the only options they are giving me are to take an off-lease 8050
>replacement at no charge, or roll the remaining lease AND buyout into a
>new CCP550 or 650 (KM5500/6500). I don't believe anyone on this list
>would treat a good customer like that. I know in my business we
>wouldn't.  Xerox in our area doesn't have that great a rep for service.
>
>I agree with many of your responses regarding the K/M quality not being
>that good, and am mostly wondering if I need the speed and stock
>handling of the KM over the quality and hopefully dependability of the
>Canons. I'll look into the 5185 PRO release.
>
>Sorry for the length and the semi-vent, I'm going back to my mental
>happy place now.
>
>Scott Vicnaire
>
>Regal Printing & Graphics
>
>
>
>
>Shawn O'Neal wrote:
> > ***** This is a PrintOwners List Message *****
> >
> > I recently heard from a dealer that Canon is going to come out with a 5185
> > PRO version which will compete with the new Xerox 700 and the KM6500. Both
> > are basically office copiers with better finishing and paper capabilities
> > but not much improvement on the image side. As far as the C1, yes it is
>slow
> > but what is your volume? There is a local publisher of scientific journals
> > that runs their C1 constantly 2 shifts and averages 2 calls per month
>mostly
> > for consumables like cleaning webs etc.
> >
> > I am looking for a new machine and have evaluated the KM6500, X-700 when
>it
> > comes out and the Canon 6000 and C1. Due to image quality issues I am
>pretty
> > sure the KM machine is not for me. If the X-700 is equivalent to the Doc
>252
> > samples it has real promise but I need to wait until it is actually
> > released. The Canon 6000 image quality is amazing as is the C1. I actually
> > had an ad agency in on a tour and they wanted to take my C1 samples they
> > were so impressed.
> >
> > It sounds like from this board that many folks love the KM machine and I
>am
> > just not impressed, I have gained some good customers that left another
> > local printer running one due to image quality. I have a very good dealer
> > here and my customers are leading me towards the Canon 6000. We shall
>see...
> >
> > Shawn O'Neal
> > Conestoga dpi
> > 246 N Lincoln Ave
> > Lebanon, PA 17046
> >
> > www.conestogadpi.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: printowners-bounces at printweb.org
> > [mailto:printowners-bounces at printweb.org] On Behalf Of Charlene Sims
> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:35 AM
> > To: 'Discussion List for Printing Business Owners Only'
> > Subject: RE: [PrintOwners] Canon copiers
> >
> > ***** This is a PrintOwners List Message *****
> >
> > Canon has not been known for their stock handling.  The C1 is suppose to
>be
> > a whole lot better and the same quality as the bigger 7000 but it only
>does
> > 12 copies per minute compared to the 6500 at 65 cpm.  So it really depends
> > on what you want to do with it.  If you want production you will never get
> > much from the C1.  I am not sure about the 5185.  If it is just the 5100
> > with some updates I would not take it if someone gave it to me. :-)
> >
> > The 6500 or Ikon 650 will dramatically increase your production and
> > capabilities over the 8050.  How old is the 8050.  It has been 4 years
>since
> > they have been sold.  If that is true it is probably beyond it's
>production
> > years anyway.  More than three years of a digital copier is just icing on
> > the cake.  (At least the smaller units).
> > ch
> >
> > Charlene Sims
> > President
> > The Master's Press, Inc.
> > 14550 Midway Road
> > Dallas, Tx  75244
> >
> > 972-387-0046   fax 972-404-0317
> > www.TheMastersPress.com
> > char at themasterspress.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: printowners-bounces at printweb.org
> > [mailto:printowners-bounces at printweb.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vicnaire
> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 8:20 AM
> > To: printowners at printweb.org
> > Subject: [PrintOwners] Canon copiers
> >
> > ***** This is a PrintOwners List Message *****
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Does anyone on the list have any experience with the Canon 5185 color
> > copier and/or the Canon C1? We have an 8050 which is terrible, and the
> > vendor isn't being very helpful in getting it replaced. They basically
> > are giving me a the opportunity to roll the remaining lease into a
> > CCP550/650 and send the 8050 back. Great way to deal with a lemon, huh?
> >
> > Another vendor deals Canons, assures me their stock handling
> > capabilities are as good as the IKON/KM machines with better quality,
> > and can put a proposal together for either of the machines above.
> >
> > Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > Regal Printing & Graphics
> > 265 Water Street
> > Ellsworth, ME  04605
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PrintOwners Discussion List
> > Post: PrintOwners at printweb.org
> > Info: http://rb.enter.net/mailman/listinfo/printowners
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>signature
> > database 3283 (20080721) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>signature
> > database 3284 (20080721) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PrintOwners Discussion List
> > Post: PrintOwners at printweb.org
> > Info: http://rb.enter.net/mailman/listinfo/printowners
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PrintOwners Discussion List
> > Post: PrintOwners at printweb.org
> > Info: http://rb.enter.net/mailman/listinfo/printowners
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>PrintOwners Discussion List
>Post: PrintOwners at printweb.org
>Info: http://rb.enter.net/mailman/listinfo/printowners
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>PrintOwners Discussion List
>Post: PrintOwners at printweb.org
>Info: http://rb.enter.net/mailman/listinfo/printowners
>
>
>__________ NOD32 3288 (20080722) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com

_____________________________________________

Scott Cappel

Sorrento Mesa Printing
7398 Trade Street
San Diego, CA 92121-2422
858-527-0800
858-527-1740 FAX
http://www.sorrentomesa.com

LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sorrentomesa

Direct Links for Learning:
http://www.sorrentomesa.com/extra/educarchives.html
http://www.sorrentomesa.com/extra/techarchives.html
http://www.sorrentomesa.com/extra/infoarchives.html

Authorized QuarkAlliance Solutions Provider
Authorized Adobe Solutions Network Provider
Corel Approved Service Bureau Strategic Level
Authorized Microsoft Publisher 2003 Solutions Provider

Commercial and Digital Color Printing for San Diego